The first thing one DOESN"T want to do.....is buy anything used from Lional Stone.
I bought a supposedly rebuildable 289 from him. Got it home, took it apart only to find a piece if one main cap register was damaged. While it "may" have been usable for a fair queen or a around town car, it surely wouldn't stand up to any spirited driving without comming apart all over the ground.
I called Lional, told him the problem, he said bring it back. Good so far! A long time friend of "his" helped me get it back to Lionals house.
Now comes the hard part......If someone buys something from me....and then wants to return it because of damage...I sure want to see this damage. So...the engine was left apart. When Lional saw it he came "unglued"........ "Get that thing outa here", pluss more bad words. So we reloaded and left.
Fast foward about 5/6 months........
I bought another (full flow 259) engine that is in fairly nice condition One head has a crack in the ehxaust port, but I think it'll be ok....!
So...I now have 14 of 16 rods, one has bad pits and rusted away metal (Lionels), one is cracked adjcent to the bolt (the 259)....and this is BEFORE they've been magnafluxed. Lionals Crank "appears" usable. The 289 heads "appear" usable. So I started to port Lionels heads, big intake valves, stock exhaust valves. I went to Ross Pistons with a stock, used up, 289 piston in hand. Hopefully in two or three weeks I'll have a new set of modern, forged, 3.625" dia. pistons. I'm modifying the stock rods to lighten them a little and not use the pin locking stud, along with cleaning, polishing, shot peening the beams.
I ground, cut, removed, hacked away any metal not being used on the block to remove as much weight as possible. All that will be taken up with added weight from a few R2 Avanti parts!!! I've got an Avanti pan to copy the very nicely designed baffle and Avanti breather tube...both kinda heavy!!
Back to Lionels 289...when removing the crank and rods, I noticed that the entire main web on two mains are completely trash, unusable, broken cast iron. The main bearings look fairly good...except...for near the parting edge, copper is showing........! Someone really new his stuff when assembling that the last time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blameing Lionel for this damage, just for not giving me my hard earned money back! So I chalk it up to expensive crank, heads and 7 rods!!
Well, that's about where I am now. I'll be getting the rods magged tomorrow, along with some hot rod porting work I'm doing on a set of heads for a guy with a Lark.
Next update to follow.
Engine building 101
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Engine building 101
by Mike » 2005 Sep 23 Fri 12:30 pm
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Mike - Posts: 685
- Joined: 2004 Dec 18 Sat 3:28 pm
- Location: So. Cal.
by Mike » 2005 Oct 28 Fri 7:21 am
Well....just to throw up some new stuff here...
I finally picked up my new Ross pistons....pretty cool, light too.
I'm porting two sets of heads, one set for me (going on the Conestoga) and a set for a guy in the Marines with a supercharged Lark. He bought a set of heads that already had large valves in them with a fresh valve grind. What a pain trying to not touch the fresh ground area. When modifying the chambers and the ports, it's difficult at best. Should gain a noticable amount of flow....we'll find out!
Gonna get them both flow tested at the same time to see how well some of my "experimenal" stuff works (on my heads only!).
Later all.
I finally picked up my new Ross pistons....pretty cool, light too.
I'm porting two sets of heads, one set for me (going on the Conestoga) and a set for a guy in the Marines with a supercharged Lark. He bought a set of heads that already had large valves in them with a fresh valve grind. What a pain trying to not touch the fresh ground area. When modifying the chambers and the ports, it's difficult at best. Should gain a noticable amount of flow....we'll find out!
Gonna get them both flow tested at the same time to see how well some of my "experimenal" stuff works (on my heads only!).
Later all.
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Mike - Posts: 685
- Joined: 2004 Dec 18 Sat 3:28 pm
- Location: So. Cal.
by hi-per al » 2005 Oct 29 Sat 5:40 pm
Mike....Just wondering a couple of things. 
Are these pistons cast or forged? What do they charge for them? Just curious as I use custom forged pistons in my HD fueler and I have had them made by JE and now CP Piston. They are forged and vary in configuration. Run about $90.00 per for runs of 4 with varying bore sizes. Less for more.....Al
Are these pistons cast or forged? What do they charge for them? Just curious as I use custom forged pistons in my HD fueler and I have had them made by JE and now CP Piston. They are forged and vary in configuration. Run about $90.00 per for runs of 4 with varying bore sizes. Less for more.....AlLive your Dreams
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hi-per al - Posts: 287
- Joined: 2004 Dec 30 Thu 12:06 am
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
by Guest » 2005 Oct 31 Mon 8:31 am
Hey Al,
Definatly forged. Cost ...not supposed to say...one of the owners gave me an overly good deal! They are nice, exactly what I asked for.
My guess is, they're similar to most of the rest cost wise. They are one of the last owner...owned piston manufactures left....for what ever difference that makes. From what I undersatnd most of the rest of'em are smaller parts of a "big" parent company. Like "Grace" a few years back.
Definatly forged. Cost ...not supposed to say...one of the owners gave me an overly good deal! They are nice, exactly what I asked for.
My guess is, they're similar to most of the rest cost wise. They are one of the last owner...owned piston manufactures left....for what ever difference that makes. From what I undersatnd most of the rest of'em are smaller parts of a "big" parent company. Like "Grace" a few years back.
- Guest
by Mike » 2005 Nov 02 Wed 2:04 pm
For any of you hot rodders out there, ATI will make you a real harmonic damper. Not that strange little disc we all now have. Got mine the other day, very nice. Not cheap, but nice. $515.00.
Hi Per....
The "guest" above is me. Yes, my Ross pistons are forged. They've been in business a long time.
Hi Per....
The "guest" above is me. Yes, my Ross pistons are forged. They've been in business a long time.
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Mike - Posts: 685
- Joined: 2004 Dec 18 Sat 3:28 pm
- Location: So. Cal.
by Mike » 2005 Nov 30 Wed 10:28 am
Well...connecting rods...
I sent 14 rods out for magnaflux. All good. Now they are going to get the lower portion of the lock stud boss machined away for a little but crucial weight loss.
But........after talking with a few people about the power levels the stock rod will tolerate....I'm seriously thinking about aluminum rods. Two companies come to mind at this point. After talking with a few a while back about both steel and alum., I'm going to send a rod to Bill Miller Engineering. He has a relitivly small big end that will go to 6.625" long to check out.
The other is Groden (spl ?). They machine theirs out of plate. While ultimatly not as strong as a good "forged" rod....they will machine just about anything.
I'll just have to watch the temp gauge closely!
I've also done some streamlining to the counterweights on the crank shaft. Worth any power in a Stude........who knows...it's too late to go back now!
I sent 14 rods out for magnaflux. All good. Now they are going to get the lower portion of the lock stud boss machined away for a little but crucial weight loss.
But........after talking with a few people about the power levels the stock rod will tolerate....I'm seriously thinking about aluminum rods. Two companies come to mind at this point. After talking with a few a while back about both steel and alum., I'm going to send a rod to Bill Miller Engineering. He has a relitivly small big end that will go to 6.625" long to check out.
The other is Groden (spl ?). They machine theirs out of plate. While ultimatly not as strong as a good "forged" rod....they will machine just about anything.
I'll just have to watch the temp gauge closely!
I've also done some streamlining to the counterweights on the crank shaft. Worth any power in a Stude........who knows...it's too late to go back now!
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Mike - Posts: 685
- Joined: 2004 Dec 18 Sat 3:28 pm
- Location: So. Cal.
by Guest » 2005 Dec 30 Fri 7:12 pm
Quick update on my heads....
I filled the exhaust heat crossover passage in my heads with 259 piston material. I melted a piston and poured it into the crossover to fill the entire passage.
That's a VERY simplified statement about what it actually took to perform the task!
This "should" do a coupla things....more even exhaust port flow, less heat into the coolant system, no worries about the crossover port leaking at the manifold.
As for the rods...no decission yet. The boss has been machined off...I ground all the flash and smoothed all the sharp/rough edges on one rod.....look nice. Just not sure what I want to do about rod usage?!?! I called a coupla places that build rods....all off for the holidays!
I filled the exhaust heat crossover passage in my heads with 259 piston material. I melted a piston and poured it into the crossover to fill the entire passage.
That's a VERY simplified statement about what it actually took to perform the task!
This "should" do a coupla things....more even exhaust port flow, less heat into the coolant system, no worries about the crossover port leaking at the manifold.
As for the rods...no decission yet. The boss has been machined off...I ground all the flash and smoothed all the sharp/rough edges on one rod.....look nice. Just not sure what I want to do about rod usage?!?! I called a coupla places that build rods....all off for the holidays!
- Guest
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