C-T Wheels Info

[hi-per al]

Roger...No disrespect to your efforts. I surely appreciate your help.


Al

[Mike]

Interesting..

A coupla comments about the info.

1. The main reason for Halibrands cracking is still the same reasons for Halibrands cracking "today"....TOO many bolt patterns in one wheel. Plus many "plugged" old holes to add new patterns. This does NOT return full strength to the center/hub of the wheel..!
They are still used in all classes but Nostailgia Top Fuel. And even that was stopped only because of guys getting upset because, they ONLY had two patterns in their wheels...so the NHRA said.."ok, we'll fix this...no more Halibrands in Top Fuell and later Nostialgia Funny Car.
I believe the rest of the classes are still allowd to run them, max..two bolt patterns.
All the above is to say...they weren't/aren't "that" bad...!

2. I didn't realize Chuck Turner had died..
Maybe this is the reason the "Peddler" Nostialgia Funny car was absent for a while. I know that they also tried modern Funny Car racing also, but the parts/fuel cost was too much for them. So a few years later, they (someone !?) decided to the Nostialgia racing in a Funny Car.
Still running last I heard.

Al, glad you finally got your info..!

Mike

[hi-per al]

The wheels that I have already have 2 bolt patterns in them. 5 1/2 inch and 5 inch. I do plan to put the 4 1/2 pattern into them as well. ITo combat the cracking instead of plugging the holes my thought process runs to making a .500 steel washer insert that fits the entire area of the bolt hole recess area. This will reinforce the crush zone as well as give me a non invasive place for the lug nut counterbore. I think that I will be able to accomplish this without changing the wheel studs but if not I will do what I have to. Then all the aboration will be hidden by the baby moon center cap. This is not a rce car.

Any thoughts on what I may have overlooked would be welcome as I have not commited to anything yet. Well except for some polishing.

Many thanx to all that have offered help here. I think it is way that I have got such knowledgeable responses.

Al

[Half Fast One]

Mike;

Put enough power, torque, to any wheel and it's burnt toast. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what the problems are, to many bolt patterns, to many plugs, cracking, etc. "Halibrands" are still one of the best looking wheels out there. Go to any Car Show and someone will be pointing them out to their buddies.


Al;

You never did tell us where or how you came across those CT wheels. Questions that need answering....

Roger...

[Mike]

Roger -

Well...not really. Have you seen some of todays "race" wheels. Pretty wimpy spoke area in many.
You gotta remember, it's not a solid connection to the ground with any car...there's a giant ballon between the axle and the ground..!
And yea, I have several sets of both American and Halibrand "mag"-nesium wheels, and understand the possible problems. Mostly from pot holes and curbs...!
I have only one set of Halibrand wheels that have two patterns...And I'm not even sure why I bought them...! They are 16" diameter..! Though I did have them on the back of my blue wagon for a while.

That said...

Al - for what it may be worth...personally...I wouldn't run the wheel with three patterns, or as you say, I'd change the lug pattern in the front hub/rear axle if there is room.
A steel cover might work if it's solidly fastened (bolted, pinned, etc.) to the wheel center. But just sandwiching it between the lug and the wheel wont help strengthen the wheel any.
Take your steel plate and weld on five pins that fight "tightly" into one of the other existing patterns. That might be good for long term use.

I understand you won't be drag racing, but just the act of going around corners put as much or more strain on the hub and spoke area of a wheel as the load placed on those areas going in a straight line.

If you'd like I can regail you with how I know how much wheels bend, warp and twist when taking freeway on-ramps, off-ramps and just going around corners in general.

Mike

[hi-per al]

Daaammmnnn! Spring is finally here and and my workload is just flat overwhelming! 37 years and I still get surprised by the feast and famine of this biz in the Great White North. Thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

These wheels came to me from an old hot rodder in my neck of the woods. I took them because they fit into my idea of a retro style ride as well as they fit my criteria which is Dare to be Different. I have had a number of rodder folks that have looked at these wheels tell me that they are tasteless and I should get my head into the current scheme of things. Spurs me on all the more to continue on the path that I am on.

Mike...Ya got me! Google is not my friend when I search "regail". If you mean to amuse me with stories of wheel carnage and mayhem I must say bring it on.

I am not sure if I read your post right but it appears to me that you think the plate would be sandwiched between the hub and wheel? My thought is to sandwich the wheel between the hub and plate spreading the clamping force over a greater area and also minimizing the amount of material removal from the wheel as the lug nut taper would be in the plate. When I have a little more time I am certainly going to study moving the bolt circle to one of the existing sizes. One of the Stude gurus in the area believes that I can use spindles from a 1950 Commander to get the 5 inch pattern in the front and redrill the rear axle flanges. Failing that there is always a rack and pinion steering redo with any bolt pattern that I want. Back to Daaammmnn! I want to drive this rig.


I may be a little obtuse here but I dont understand the advantage of the welded pins. But then I am no rocket scientist.
Oh I crack me up!

Seriously I would certainly appreciate you taking the time to educate me as to what advantages and disadvantages you see with my thoughts.

Happy Easter Egg to all.

Al

[Mike]

I should get my head into the current scheme of things. Spurs me on all the more to continue on the path that I am on.

No, no, you misunderstand...I think most all of us are just jealous of the fact you have a "cool" wheel. In fact I have been looking for a set for myself..!

Mike...Ya got me! Google is not my friend when I search "regail".

Ok...so I didn't look up the spealing...regale is the correct spelling.

As far as your plate...I understand completely how you want to use it...and I still wouldn't use it that way..! Especially a .500" thk. plate... That'll weigh almost as much as the wheel...!

If you want to help strengthen the center of that wheel, or any wheel with three patterns (material strength wise...is an excellent reason NOT to run them), is to make the plate part of the wheel...not just clamp it onto the center of the wheel.

My thought is to actually use the outer 5-1/2" B.C. AND the 4-1/2" B.C. to drive and support the wheel.
On one hand, the 1/2" or so between the 4-1/2" and 5" patterns give very little radial strength and even less bending strength. And as I hinted at before, when going around corners, wheels really do..."get bent" by the weight of the car and the traction of the tires. As you can imagin, the fronts normally take most of that load..!

Anyway, with an outer "plate", this will help the bending moment a little, but wont help the inline loads at all.
Having the wheel center squeezed between the drum/hub and the plate gives little to no additional strength, inline of the lug studs. The only thing you'll get is a "friction" strength....and this wouldn't be good for a go-kart..!

Now if you were to add...tight fitting drive pins, so to speak (in the 5-1/2" pattern)...in the outer lug holes...this would go a long way in providing additional strength in line with axle rotation and also some additional support for the bending (cornering) loads. Still not perfect, but much better.

As far as redrilling the hubs/axles, I'm not positive, but I don't think there's enough material for a larger diameter bolt pattern. Obviously best to measure though. THAT IS the best way of doing this deal.

Hope this helps with my concern...

Mike

[hi-per al]

Mike...thanx for the info. Me thinks that I will certainly have to pay way more attention to this fix than I first envisioned. I certainly do appreciate the concern.

Where theres a will !

Anyone ever had anything to do with these folks?

http://www.slickstreetstuff.com/

Al

[Mike]

I don't, no one I know of personally has used any of their stuff.

Their interior parts appear to be nicely done in pictures I've seen.
I haven't peroused their web site, so I don't kow about everything they sell.

As far as the front suspension they sell, they bought it from the guy that originally designed and sold it a few years back.
To me....too many things wrong with it to spend THAT much money on it.
I know a guy who bought one about five or so years ago...it's still in the boxes..!
The biggest thing is the height of the upper control arm mount. It's higher thAn the stock setup and the stock arm mount location is bad enough (cornering wise).
If you want to do some reengineering and drop the mount down into the top of the frame, so the pivot at the frame is below the ball joint center...that would be a big step in making that geometry better.

I think the R&P mount may have been redone since the one I saw..not sure, but I wouldn't run the original design...way too flimsy. So that "may" need rework also.

What were you thinking about ?

Mike

[Half Fast One]

I have a friend, hard to believe, that is thinking of putting one of those conversions in his 51. My thought was pretty much on the same order as Mike. Not quite happy with the idea of spending that amount of money and not getting a tested and true product. I continue to argue against buying it.

Of course my "friend" is the same guy who lead me to the Conestoga that I bought. It had been owned by the seller for about 10 years and was totally original. Then after spending a small fortune on restoring everything back to new he didn't think it ran, stopped or steered any better then before he spent all the money. He then tore it all out and put a Camaro Front Clip and a 350 Chevy with a 400 turbo hydro in it. Left the original rear end in it since he ran out of money and was going through a DEVORCE. NO, he only restored the running gear, not the body or interior. Rusted through floors were free with purchase. Tin laying over the holes to keep you from draggin' your feet on the road? No additional charge.

So with that knowledge you can come to your own conclusion as to how much I know about front end geomitry and buying old cars. HA!!

When I Raced I would always use the same trick stuff that the winners used. My biggest mistake was I thought I was a BETTER DRIVER. DUH!!!

Have not bought anything from these folks either.

These tidbits of nonsense and $10.00 should buy you a cup of coffee just about anywhere.

Roger....